Talk:Moana/@comment-24662474-20140611200357/@comment-929837-20140704001944

Clearly you didn't watch the video, so here's what Doug said:

"Hercules friggin killed everyone's interest in the Disney Reinassance

This is one of the most confusing, oddly put together...I don't wanna say Disney Animated Canon films, just Disney films in general. The choices they made to tell this story are just so mind boggling. Nothing about it makes sense, it's sort of like the Mad Libs of Disney films.

The musical style of the movie is gonna be...gospel! (not gonna work)

The designer of the movie is gonna be...Scarfe, the guy who did the animation for 'Pink Floyd's The Wall'! (not gonna work either)

The look and tone of the movie is gonna be...Las Vegas! (definitevely not gonna work)

And the singer of the main song is gonna be...Michael Bolton! (you are dead to me, movie)

Yeah, I don't know what the mindset was, maybe they wanted to try something so different to get them out of the ditch, but MAN does it backfire!

Let's talk about the story. It's Greek mythology, you have all the gods up on Mount Olympus, and Zeus is happy because of the birth of his son, Hercules. But Lord Hades, the ruler of the Underworld, wants to see Hercules destroyed because Hercules is destined to stop him from taking over the world in the future. So, he gives Hercules a potion that takes away Hercules' godly powers (interesting...), and much like Superman, Hercules is raised among mortals. But, again just like Superman, he finds out that his father is a god among men and that he himself has superhuman powers. And, just like Superman, he goes to say the day wherever he can with his incredible strength. And, just like Superman (are you seeing a pattern here?), he falls in love with a snarky woman that constantly has to be saved. Once Hades finds out that Hercules is alive, he tries to use the woman, named Megara, to seduce him and take away his powers. Hades uses her as bait to lure him into giving his powers away and that's exactly what Hercules does, leaving Hades free to take over both Earth and Olympus, while Hercules tries to stop him however he can.

I guess in many respects the comparisons to Superman shouldn't shock me. I mean, this IS where the inspiration for Superman came from, Greek mythology. But like I said, it's the choices they made and the way they tell the story that just really makes it all wrong.

Hercules is not a very interesting character, we've seen this kind of idiot before. He's not very bright, but he has a good heart. He'll fall for whatever stupid plan you put in front of him, but gosh, he's just so wide-eyed you can't help but feel sorry for him.

Megara is sassy, but that's about it. There's not really much to her after that. Yeah, they try to give her a past, but she's still not that interesting. She's not really a character, she's just a few one-liners and a sneer.

And speaking of which, that's exactly what Philoctetes is. Danny DeVito plays...Danny DeVito. Yeah, he's the trainer, he's like Mickey from the 'Rocky' movies, and again, there's nothing new to him. Except for the fact that this cliched character archetype is in Greek mythology, but why would we want to see that?

The only thing that's kind of entertaining is James Woods as Hades, because it's one of those weird choices that I guess works to its advantage. I mean, how strange is that this guy doesn't talk like a traditional villain, he talks much more like a lawyer or a talent agent. He's funny, but he's not enough to save the movie.

And as for all the other characters...they are totally forgettable.

I love Scarfe's work, but here it's really not used well. In something like 'Pink Floyd's The Wall' it really shines because his work is so different and strange. In a movie about Greek mythology...maybe it could have work, but it doesn't because of the way they are telling the story. This isn't Greek mythology, this is the Excalibur Casino telling you about Greek mythology.

The songs? I don't remember any of them. In fact, I barely remember the parts where the characters did sing.

So, what where they thinking when they put this together? The only thing I can contemplate is that maybe they were trying to go for something similar to what they did with 'Aladdin'. 'Aladdin' was sort of 'the Arabian Nights meets Las Vegas', but that worked because the animation was so good, the writing was so good, and there was a lot of chemistry between Aladdin and Jasmine. Both movies have a broad scope and try to please everyone to have a general audience. 'Aladdin' suceeds in that regards, 'Hercules' does not. I mean, when you visit Greece, and you look at statues and sculptures of Hercules, and then you think the Disney Animated Canon bringing that to life...this isn't what you think. Which would be fine if it was an entertaining alternative, but it's not.

It's clumsy, it's flawed, the story is so recycled, the characters are so recycled...they aren't just derivative of other Disney Animated Canon films, they are just cliched characters in general.

Maybe if it went to full straight up satire of Greek mythology, it wouldn't necessarily work, but that's the only way I can see the choices they made with this movie making sense. But it's not a parody, so when you still have to have a villain who is intimidating, a hero who is likable, and a romance you are supposed to believe, and, well, actual suspense in the climax, you can't do the things this movie does and expect people to actually get invested."

...and that's why we both think "Hercules" is an horrible movie.