Thread:Hey1234/@comment-1672596-20160212003505/@comment-1672596-20160212022055

Hey1234 wrote: Weedle McHairybug wrote: Hey1234 wrote: You bring up Ursula and her powers. The difference between Ursula's magic during Poor Unfortunate Souls and Ariel's wave during Part of Your World is that, Ursula exhibits having magical abilities outside of a song.

Sometimes you read a bit too much into things. Sometimes things happen soley for the use of dramatic filmaking and spectacle. You may not think so, but yes, the use of a wave crashing during the climax of a song is definitely spectacle and dramatic filmmaking. Flounder and the fishes emerging from the lagoon to sprout water from their mouths around Ariel and Eric's boat during Kiss the Girl was meant to add spectacle. Some of these choices are done just for the sake of the spectacle of a song. The song sequences are meant to be visually enticing; the Renaissance songs, in particular, are meant to echo Broadway spectaculars. Because of that, you get flashy bits of animation that don't occure during a casual scene of the movie. That's why the wave crashed at the end of Part of Your World. Not because Ariel has control over water. There was absolutely nothing matching up with Broadway musical numbers in The Little Mermaid, though. Probably the closest we've got to that is Under the Sea with the changing of colors, and even THAT was actually in-universe. In order for it to truly qualify as actually being spectacle, they'd have to have the characters entering dance routines and several special effects for absolutely no real reason at all (like, for example, the opening song for Beauty and the Beast, or how Gaston seems to randomly teleport or how villagers are dancing like on Broadway in his eponymous song, even by swinging from chandeliers, or having the various food act as fireworks and geysers in Be Our Guest. Or how about I Just Can't Wait to Be King with all the technocolor animals, the surreal environments, how overall the scenes shift erratically, among other things.).

If they wanted spectacle, they would have had fireworks occurring randomly and Sebastian and Flounder randomly entering a jig around the time of the reprise to Part of Your World, just like how those villagers randomly broke out into song and dance in the opening of Beauty and the Beast and then in a split second resumed normal duties when Belle snapped back a look in the ending. So yes, it actually WAS a demonstration of her abilities, NOT just spectacle (and besides, the NES, Game Boy, and Sega version, Sorcerer's of the Magic Kingdom, and even some of the PlayStation games and 3DS games had Ariel demonstrating similar abilities), and I also cited how she defeated Evil Manta as well. I'm fully aware of what spectacle is, and I even cited specific examples from Disney films that actually WERE purely spectacle and in no way meant to be in continuity in this post and the other post, so don't think I'm arguing about the wave bit because I don't know what using things for drama or spectacle is, because I do know what they are and in fact it actually acts as a very huge pet peeve of mine. I might as well add that The Little Mermaid is one of those films where most if not all of the musical numbers actually ARE justified in-universe, so for that reason alone, we really shouldn't use spectacle as an excuse for removing it. Not to mention, technically, The Little Mermaid's closer to an opera than an actual Broadway musical since none of the characters actually acted randomly and erratically as if they were in a nuthouse where they randomly started singing and dancing for no apparent reason, while Beauty and the Beast is the first Disney film to actually ACT like they were on broadway, right down to erratic behavior.

Besides, I did cite an example from the TV series, and in fact, the TV series example was even cited under Ariel's singing voice's abilities in her article.

EDIT: Also, by that logic, I guess Ursula's reflection from the mirror was just spectacle considering that literally only happened in the reprise and NOT anywhere else, even though it was VERY clear that's exactly what happened. Just because it only happened in a musical doesn't mean it's solely spectacle. You're still not understanding. Me equating it to Broadway isn't about the musical numbers being grand and over the top in size (and Broadway isn't all about that; dozens of musicals have been small scale, and exactly like Mermaid's musical sequences) it's about the use of certain tools for the sake of filmaking. Remember, this is a movie. This is a motion picture made by people, for people to be entertained by, via visuals, characters, and storytelling. Decisions are made for dramatic effect all. The. Time.

Games are not canon. Theme parks are not canon, so those are immediately invalidated.

As far as the TV episode goes, that wasn't due to Ariel's singing. Once again, it was an effect, meant to make the Manta's defeat dramatic and flamboyant (like his character). Once again, if it was some power, why wouldn't they bring it back into another scene? Another episode? As much danger as Ariel lands in, and she never uses this so called superpower to help? Even when her friends are seconds away from death?

Vanessa revealing herself to be Ursula in the mirror and the Part of Your World wave are two totally different things. The former was relevant to the story, meant to reveal the identity of this mystery girl to Scuttle, who needed to alert Ariel. The latter was just for, once again, dramatic effect during a musical number. In case you haven't noticed, many elements in various fictions haven't exactly been touched up again, even those that aren't for dramatic effect or spectacle. Think noodle incidents, or for a more specific example, how Belle seemed to have superhuman strength lifting up what is very likely to be an almost ton in mass chimera for no REAL reason at all, TWICE, three times including her doing something similar with Maurice, all times when they were out cold/dying, even though such an ability actually would prove to be VERY useful in stopping Gaston and saving Maurice WITHOUT resorting to exposing Beast to the mob, and all of those weren't even musical numbers either. So no, drama isn't exactly an excuse for saying it didn't happen, because there have been PLENTY of actual abilities that they don't exactly elaborate on much further or even give much showcase for. In Metal Gear Solid, for example, the character of Nastasha Romanenko was explicitly stated to act as a guide for Snake to disarm a nuke if the need arises, yet despite Liquid Snake explicitly strapping Meryl to a nuclear bomb and even starting a countdown to match her vital signs, not only is she not seen to help Snake at all diffuse it, but certain sources even imply that she NEVER helped him at all. Not to mention in Batman: Arkham Origins, during their final fight, Batman explicitly threw Joker into a window hard enough to shatter it, with Joker even using the shards as makeshift knives to cut Batman up, yet after an intense beatdown, the scene shifts to show the window mysteriously repaired as if it were never broken at all. Also, LeFou managed to take a LOT of punishment even outside musical numbers (let's see, he managed to survive being exposed to cold elements, including being buried underneath snow for... what? A week, possibly even months? Get his face stuck in a mug for several minutes (not to mention have his face forcibly placed in a tuba even earlier to such an extent that his LIPS jutted out of the entry point just for him to speak), being crushed under a bench with three ladies on it and even a chair with a full grown man on it, practically all sorts of beatdowns Gaston gives him? Realistically, most of those would have killed a man, especially someone of HIS small stature). If it's demonstrated, which the wave bit most certainly is, we keep it, no exceptions. And canon or not, the fact that they even demonstrated it at all should at least be something to take into consideration.

And anyways, the Gaston and even the Belle opening songs weren't at all grandiose or over the top (Be our Guest was probably closest to actually BEING that), yet even THEY were exceedingly random at various times, often needlessly so, including Gaston demonstrating apparent teleportation abilities for absolutely NO reason at all other than to shift scenes in a clumsy manner. I know spectacle when I see it, because I've had to see it in various musicals, and many times with absolutely no real reason to do it other than simply for the sake of spectacle, and I'm telling you, the wave bit was DEFINITELY not spectacle at all, nor was Evil Manta's banishment from an underwater storm or anything like that.