You may have seen that I’ve spoken with GreyWolf2 regarding the unnecessary “mystery” surrounding the true gender of Shush, Experiment 234. GreyWolf2 thinks we should ask you what you think regarding this subject before we fix the article to make it accurate if needed.
This has been driving me crazy for years. Fans claiming Shush is a female is incorrect, to my knowledge, being an avid fan of the series. I am positive that this Experiment is indeed male, as he was referred to as such throughout his debut episode and the entire series, and there are absolutely no official sources that I can find that prove otherwise.
As I mentioned, I now know that Yin’s gender was officially confirmed to be female only very recently by the obscure TsumTsum App game, but Shush isn’t included in that game.
I’d like to clear this up once and for all. Do you know of any source that officially proves Shush is actually female? If not, we really need to fix his articles on all of the Wikis to make it known that Shush is in fact a male.
First of all, I appreciate your reply. I honestly didn't mean to startle anyone with my deluge of edits. I had been itching to fix up the errors on the Lilo & Stitch Wiki for years. Quite frankly, it was (and still is) a fanon-riddled mess. Being a huge fan of the series since the original movie, all of those inaccuracies and fan-fiction was driving me crazy. Seeing as I noticed that you had recently started removing all of the fan-art, I didn't think it would be a problem to help you out with purging the articles themselves of the fanon material. Nobody else seemed interested, and as you mentioned, many fans of the series tend to avoid that Wiki entirely due to all of the issues it has.
I still don't understand why people think this experiment is female in the first place. It really seems like a fan's false opinion just went viral around the internet... As I said before, I really think we should go with the info from his actual Series episode for now. Shush was described with male-only pronouns, and there is entirely no other evidence that suggests he is female, so I really think it is safe to say he is indeed a male. If you would like to use gender-neutral pronouns, I guess that's definitely a better option than inaccurately calling him a female -- but I still insist that we use male pronouns for Shush due to him being called a male by all of the characters in his debut episode, and there being no other sources to confirm anything otherwise. Honestly, why would we need to confirm it when we already have Shush's episode to use as a source? No, I do not want to bug Winfield about it on Twitter. Twitter is toxic, in my opinion, and I do not even have an account there, nor do I want one. That isn't necessary anyway. As I said, we have Shush's Series episode as a source. The Series episode (although you are skeptical of The Series) in my opinion, is perfectly trustworthy. I don't see any harm in using it as the source for Shush's true gender for now. If something comes up later (like what happened with Yin's re-confirmed gender), we can always fix the article, but I doubt that will happen.
Regarding the trivia fact you suggested: "Lilo and Pleakley referred to Shush as a male in their debut, but they are often considered to be female by fans.":
If you think gender-neutral is currently the best option for his article, I think the first part "Lilo and Pleakley referred to Shush as a male in their debut." is fine. But the part about what "fans" think just doesn't sound professional for a Wikia that is supposed to include canonical information. It really doesn't matter what "fans" think. The truth is what really matters.
I get everything about Yin, and the new TsumTsum App confirming her gender finally. As I said in a previous post, I apologize for the oversight regarding Yin's very recently confirmed gender. I'm personally not interested in Disney TsumTsum or Disney App games at all, so if the App it is that popular, as you mentioned, I just missed it, so I had no idea about the news regarding Yin. All I knew of her was from The Series - where she was called "him" and "he" constantly, and wore a simple pink bathrobe at Stitch's slumber party in Dupe's debut episode, which didn't convince me that Yin was female. Also Yin was allured by Angel's song, and was among the all-male experiments that were hypnotized into attacking Stitch in Angel's debut episode, so that had also convinced me Yin was male -- though I realize Angel's siren song probably works on all experiments before Reuben, regardless of gender. It is possible that Yin was originally supposed to be a male experiment, but Disney changed it due to the popularity of the fandom's opinion... Really seems weird to me, but I see that they have apparently confirmed it with that App. Can we trust an App over the actual series? Well, that's for the admins to decide, I suppose. I have nothing more to say about Yin. Just explaining my reasoning for changing the gender on Yin's article -- I meant no harm.
Anyhow, I do have the entire Lilo & Stitch: The Series on my PC, every episode, and I can pull up any episode and watch it any time. I am a huge fan of Lilo and Stitch: The Series (as well as the movies) and have watched the episodes many times (with Shush's being one of my favourites that I am very familiar with). I know it may have its minor inconsistencies, like any cartoon, but I insist we use it as our source on Shush for now, as there is no other source.
OK, so I'll go forward with the gender-neutral writing on Shush's article, without mentioning any fan speculation. Just to say this, it's not that I'm wary of The Series itself, it's just that the various factors involved have complicated things. I will mention though that recently, a user over here on Disney Wiki who claims to be an old TV.com admin who oversaw the old thread has recently edited a number of Lilo & Stitch -related articles here, including the Experiments article. They've said that they emailed Winfield about a few things and he responded back with some answers. Maybe you can ask them if they could email Winfield on your behalf asking about Shush's gender. Right now though, I'm going forward with a mass article deletion over on Lilo & Stitch Wiki, so it will be changing over there.
All right. That sounds fine for now. I respect your decision, and think it is absolutely best to remove the female pronouns from Shush's articles (on the Disney Wiki as well). I still don't quite understand why there exists a confusion about Shush's gender to begin with. When you say, regarding The Series, "the various factors involved have complicated things", I'm not sure what you mean -- it's a bit vague...
Can you tell me why this confusion with Shush's gender even exists? He was given male pronouns in The Series, and he's a weasel/rodent-like experiment with reddish fur who can overhear people's conversations. He doesn't have any distinctly feminine traits or qualities, like, say Angel, Clip, or Bonnie. Why is this experiment's gender under debate??? I can understand Yin (as Yin within the Yin and Yang concept is the "feminine" half as opposed to Yang being the "masculine" half), but there shouldn't be any such confusion with Shush. I think it's pure hearsay from fans that went viral...
Also, regarding contacting a mysterious user here so they can contact Winfield about Shush, again, I really don't know if that's necessary...
What has changed to make some fans believe Shush is female? I would really like to know what you think about the Shush gender debate, as there really is no sense behind it.
Regarding the deletion of the fanon articles on the Lilo and Stitch Wiki, thank you! I'm very glad to hear that this is finally being done. :)
Various factors, as in, the stuff I mentioned in my first reply earlier. I thought you would've gotten it when I said that. Sorry.
As for the whole confusion over Shush's gender thing, I honestly don't know how it all started. I wasn't around for everything that went down, so your guess is as good as mine. I'm not going to be bothered about how this debate started right now since I'm taking care of several things at the moment both on L&S Wiki and in real life.
You are welcome. There is actually a third admin on there who had issues with my idea, but since they run a different L&S-focused wiki and GrayWolf has now sided with me, I'm just going forward with this right now. I've already taken care of the 0-Series and the 1-Series.
Ah, right, I see what you mean regarding the "various factors". Sorry - I had to revisit your message on the Lilo and Stitch Wiki.
By the way, there are still female pronouns left on Shush's page on the Wiki. I don't know if you plan on removing them all later -- I understand that you're working on a lot of things over there, and in real life, currently. When my account works again in a few hours, I would be happy to comb over Shush's article to ensure all gender-neutral pronouns are used, if you haven't been able to get to it.
Anyhow, I'm just really happy to see all that fanon stuff go. I'm relieved that this decision to clean up the Wiki worked out.
Hi there, is there a reason why you believe that the source provided to show that Stitch's Great Escape is closed should not be regarded asproof on this wiki? I would agree with you that it isn't proof that it's closed if this was the case on wikipedia but I don't understand why you think this should also be the case here.
Because as McDoob stated over on Wikipedia it doesn't count as proof. This image was initially shared on social media, where anyone can share almost anything they want and make their own assumptions or fabricate their own stories.
In other words, people can lie. That's what McDoob was basically trying to say this whole time. Even if the person who first leaked these photos was supposedly telling the truth, we don't know who they are, we don't know if they are trustworthy, and as a result, we cannot view them as a reliable source of information. To make matters worse, this ride's widespread negative reception has played a role as to why so many rumors about the ride were spread ever since it entered seasonal operation. Many people want this ride dead and will dig up anything they can get their hands on to declare it so. These photos have tied into their collective confirmation bias; the moment these people saw these photos, which were spread by someone who most likely didn't have permission from any subsidiary of Disney to take and/or share in the first place, they rushed to wherever they can to deem it closed once and for all. All this despite Disney themselves never announcing a closure or a new ride in the same location to this day, nor did they even remove the ride's official webpage. This is all why in Wikipedia's case that wiki had to put their foot down to say, "No, these photos are not reliable enough. We will not be marking it closed." Disney Wiki should not be accepting of these photos either; just because it's a fan-run wiki, doesn't mean they should hold to lower standards.
This whole debate over this ride has been frustrating for the both of us. Even I don't think the ride is ever reopening, considering Disney's past reputation on ride closures (see 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea: Submarine Voyage). But until Disney finally speaks for themselves about the ride—maybe they'll finally do so at D23 Expo this year—we shouldn't be falling over anything to support what one side wants to hear.
The person who originally leaked it was Back Door Disney (which is how the leak started). My opinion is that a fan run wiki should be where fans can contribute what they think is right (regardless of hiw credible the information is) and I think it's right to keep wikipedia and fun run wiki's (such as this) seperate from each other.
As I said I'd agree that these photos aren't credible information on wikipedia since thats more of a professional, encyclopedia style wiki and information like that shouldn't be on there.
But since this is fan run wiki, I guess that we will have to agree to disagree unless we can find a middle ground with the consensus
Pepper Gaming wrote:
The person who originally leaked it was Back Door Disney (which is how the leak started). My opinion is that a fan run wiki should be where fans can contribute what they think is right (regardless of h[o]w credible the information is) and I think it's right to keep wikipedia and fun run wiki's (such as this) sep[a]rate from each other.
As I said I'd agree that these photos aren't credible information on wikipedia since that[']s more of a professional, encyclopedia style wiki and information like that shouldn't be on there.
But since this is fan run wiki, I guess that we will have to agree to disagree unless we can find a middle ground with the consensus
OK, so we do have a source. But Patrick Spikes/BackDoorDisney is still not an official source of information. Not only that, he's gotten in trouble with Disney in the past, so that doesn't help matters. He wasn't permitted to go where he was not allowed to go, and as I said it's still very much likely that whoever took the photos (whether it's him or someone else) were not permitted to take them and share them on social media or other outside sources.
The best compromise I can go with is that this wiki's article can inform more about the rumors and speculation since Wikipedia doesn't allow for such (and I did leave that kind of info on this wiki's article in my edits), but stop short of declaring it "closed" without an official, truly reliable source. That's the best middle ground I can go with. If we cannot agree to that, then we'll have to let Disney Wiki administration decide for themselves.
I've made some minor changes to what you've said (minus adding the closing date of what I would accept as a middle ground to what you added, if you disagree then we will either have to pitch in and suggest a new middle ground that suits what both of us want or we will just have to agree to disagree.
Bearing in mind that I am willing to work with you to think of a good middle ground that suits both our needs but it will need prior discussion and involvement on both sides
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