• How can it be speculation if the magic was born in her? The magic was activated in her hair with the incantation song, and after it was cut, the magic was in her tears. Rapunzel, with her happy ever after, likely wouldn't shed a tear ever again, so it makes sense that (like it did for the hair to her tears) the magic would also work in other ways (especially as it didn't only work for her hair).

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    • First, we need to understand the meaning of "speculation"; this is in essence an opinion based on limited or no factual data. Wiki, as a general rule of thumb, and this wiki, in particular, prides itself on the validity of its information. Since "they did not age" is pure speculation based on the flimsiest of data, it does not belong in the wiki, even in the trivia section, which should include clearly observable points or points that are confirmed in one way or another.

      In the particular case of Rapunzel; the entire premise of the film is that the magic of the sun flower resided in her hair; once the hair is cut, it loses its power and never grows again. We know this because the bit of hair cut by "mother" remained short and brown amongst her golden tresses.

      When her hair is cut, it loses its power. Eugene either dies or lies at death's door, when one, single, solitary tear saves his life. There is absolutely no reason to believe that this is an ability she can activate at will. In fact, following the tradition of Disney, it is more likely than not that this was the last remaining drop of sun flower magic that remained in her and that it was only though extraordinary circumstances that she was capable of saving Eugene's life. Once this is achieved, the magic is gone; that is the nature of its magic.

      Now, even if we do assume that she did retain this power, we are still facing several points that require a massive amount of stretching in order to even get to the point where she AND Eugene are magically young sixty years later.

      First is the actual date of both films; as pointed out, there are two conflicting sources regarding the date of Frozen; EVERYTHING we see on-screen points to a post-1812 date, but ONE source; an interview with one of the producers (not a director or a researcher) states that it is the 1780's. It would not be the first time someone who should know better is blowing hot air.

      If that one source is taken out of the equation, we don't need to speculate on young-looking 80-year-olds.

      Second; we don't know with certainty that the head seen onscreen was Rapunzel's. Yes, it looks A LOT like her, but it could easily be Rapunzel's daughter or granddaughter.

      Third; IF she still has the power to de-age, what evidence do you have that she could do so with somebody else?

      Fourth; Rapunzel has seen with her own eyes the effect of the flower on someone who is kept young by it; remember that she had no idea just how old "mother" was; would she risk herself or Eugene to a horrible death if she could not, for any reason, perform her magic?

      The magic was not hers; it was the magic of the sun flower which resided in her. Left alone, the flower would last forever, but it was human folly that destroyed it; the king sacrificed the flower to save his daughter.

      So, based on what has been explicitly stated and seen onscreen, I am absolutely convinced that Rapunzel did not in any way use magic to keep herself or anyone else young and healthy. There is not only no evidence that she did, but there is not even any hard evidence that she would even need to do so.

      Ergo, it is unfounded speculation which does not belong in the wiki.


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    • It wasn't a producer. It was a director who revealed the timeline. And about your reply, then that would mean that a few of the trivias on Hans is also speculation, because it uses "possible" when referring to him and the Mirror (from the original story). If it didn't belong in the wiki, the admins would remove it (since they do look at users' edits, especially the Frozen pages.).

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    • Indeed; there are several facts which are speculation in that page. I actually added information to make it clear that it is indeed speculation that he is "based on the evil mirror of the original story" because the evidence does NOT support this, but that instead he is "based on the concept of mirrors, which played an important role in the original story", which IS supported by the observable evidence.

      Admins have their plates full and just because they have not addressed an issue, it does not mean that they approve of it. The princess pages have some of the heaviest trivia content in any of the over 25 thousand pages on this wiki; much of it rampant speculation with absolutely no foundation in fact, ranging from wishful thinking to rampant shipping with non-Disney characters.

      Did you notice that in the Hans trivia section one entry argued for the possibility of the name "Westerguard", while the other categorically stated that this was in fact his name? Both mention the same source, which when checked does NOT categorically confirm the name; ergo; the "possible" entry is correct, while the "categorical" one is speculation.

      But let's not go off on tangents on other articles; what is being discussed here is the aging magic issue; as I stated, there is no hard evidence, for or against, Rapunzel retaining the magical ability to rejuvenate herself and/or others, OR that she would use that ability if she had it OR that there is an actual need to use it. Therefore, anything regarding this possibly/probably non-existent ability is pure, unfounded speculation.

      Why not start a discussion on the possibility that she might still have power? Or find a way of proving the dates involved? Or a discussion on the ethics of using rejuvenation magic on a loved one when dependence and painful death could be the result? Once these topics are discussed, then you might actually have a point to make on the wiki, until then, it is just... speculation.

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    • Hi, it's me again. I spoke to one of the two directors, Nathan Greno, on Facebook, and he said it depends on who I ask. He said others felt it was the last drop. Here's what I wrote and what he wrote me (his message is the red):

      Hi, I'm Kristi. I would like to ask if Rapunzel's tear was the last drop of the flower's magic? Some fans think so, and I don't, because her healing ability was in her hair, and if it went down to her teardrop, I believe that it could be used from elsewhere inside her, just like it did for her hair and tear. Yet, they (at least one person, which makes me think there are other fans who believe that) find it impossible. So I'd like to know the answer from you.

      To be completely honest, it depends on who you ask! I think that magic is still inside her, but other people on the crew felt the tear was the last drop. I'm not sure why the power would run out? If she would have kept her hair, I feel the power would have lasted her entire life. In other words, I agree with you!

      I can screenshot the webpage if you think I made up the message above.

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    • "I'm not sure why the power would run out?" - because it is explicitly stated in the film that the magic is in her hair and that when her hair is cut it ceases to grow.

      "If she would have kept her hair, I feel the power would have lasted her entire life." - Here he is stating that the magic is in the hair. The power lasting her entire life is CONDITIONAL to her keeping the hair and does not address losing the hair. With this statement he is agreeing with me.

      "In other words, I agree with you!" - I suspect he misunderstood your question. He does not take into account the loss of the hair.

      Let me see if I can describe it a different way:

      The flower possesses a magical energy that heals. When the flower was brewed into a tea, the magic of the flower passed on to Rapunzel, where it manifested through her hair. Think of this as a magic marker pen; the magic is the ink and the hair is the felt tip. So long as the felt tip is securely in place, the marker will write. If you remove the felt tip, the ink reservoir spills out, making a mess, but impossible to write with. If you stick the felt tip back in, it won't write, because the reservoir is dry... but if you squeeze out the entire marker before the ink dries up, you might be able to get enough ink to write one last word.

      I know; the analogy is not perfect, but it demonstrates the idea quite clearly; the magic energy manifests through the hair; no hair, no magic, but since it manifests through the hair; there was still enough left in her to manifest through her tear.

      Tear, singular.

      If it helps, imagine that it was the ink left in the stub of the felt tip. After it is gone, it is gone. The reservoir is covered in ink, but it can't be squeezed out as "tears".

      --Sings-With-Spirits (talk) 20:02, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

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    • When people shed tears, they sometimes shed only one. I've done so. Rapunzel shed one tear because she loved Eugene. If someone else whom she loved also was dying, Pascal for example, he would also have been healed, and most likely by another tear.

      Regarding your illustration, magic isn't like a pen. It's everlasting. I strongly believe it's still in her, because tears can't be cut, and it wasn't as if it found it's way into the tear, but as if it were already there. With the care she was given by Gothel, she most likely never cried (people cry when they're emotional and she would have had to be in an emotional state to heal whatever would be causing her to cry: pain (Flynn's cut hand, for example), someone's death (Flynn's)). Don't you think that if a young Rapunzel cried over something (a burned hand, for example) and was too overwhelmed to sing the song, the tear would've healed that wound?? What I'm getting at is that it was already in her tear as if it were in her entire being and was still in her.

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    • Lett's discuss magical theory here; what you are referring to is the law of sympathetic memory; Rapunzel was touched by magic, so she is, indeed more apt to have an affinity for magic because it was already in her. In this she is altered forever.

      HOWEVER, the specific healing energies of the Sun Flower, as explicitly described in the film, are limited; the same way that the flower itself died when its energy was infused into a tea for Rapunzel's mother, the energy requires a living receptacle in order to renew itself. In this specific case, the living receptacle is explicitly shown to be Rapunzel's hair and ONLY her hair; we can clearly see that it does not manifest either in her eyebrows or in her eyelashes. Without the hair to hold and renew the magic, the magic energy is gone. Enough remained that, under EXTREME duress, within a few minutes of the event, that she was able to manifest what little energy remained in her, most likely remaining in her shag; as this was a miraculous event (pretty much by definition), that little drop managed to do quite a bit of magic, but after its effect was completed, the miracle passed; it was over; no more active magic remained in her. (Add to this the True Love clause typical of Disney films and the case is cinched.)

      Can she perform magic later?

      Yes, quite likely; sympathetic memory means that she was "touched by magic"; if she finds a teacher, spellbook, fairy godmother or similar, she will likely have a greater affinity for magic than your average person. Add to this her supernatural abilities due to being a Disney Princess (i.e. animal communication/companionship, the ability to draw on the power of True Love, etc...) and her considerable intelligence, knowledge and practiced abilities, she would make a GREAT wizardess...

      But this is all speculation and wishful thinking.

      As it stands, there is NOTHING to indicate that: A) after she lost her hair she gained the ability to manifest healing abilities AT WILL through the power of her tears, B) she has used those powers on herself and/or Eugene to maintain their youth.

      Would it be cool, sweet and wonderful if she had her powers? Yes. But that is what fanfic is for; there she can keep her powers, regrow her hair, go to Hogwarts and swap hairstyle tips with Leia Organa; none of this belongs in the baseline wiki article on the character.

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