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  • Everywhere people say or write that it's set in Denmark but this can't be! In Denmark there are no palmtrees, no mountains, no flamingos (you can see all of that when Ariel and Eric have their tour through the kingdom). Just because the author is Danish it doesn't mean that the movie is automatically set in Denmark. Frozen does not take place in Denmark either and it's from the same author! In my opinion the little mermaid takes place somewhere in Italy. But certainly not in Denmark. What are your opinions?

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    • I definitely think its not in Denmark. The directors in the audio commentary even said they were aiming for a medittearrean feel to Eric's kingdom (don't quote me on this I'm quoting someone who has the diamond edition on tumblr). So I think it has to be somewhere along that region. The tumblr user suggests Spain, but I like Italy and Morraco would be a good fit too. 

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    • Thank you, the kingdom definetely looks like it's in a meditterrean region. There are cypresses, olive trees and the grass looks too bright to be in Denmark. It should look way darker. Also the architecture doesn't look Danish at all. The houses all look like they are built out of marble, which is inconvenient for Denmark because of the weather. And the under the sea scenery also looks medittearrean because there are so many stones. Overall every place in this movie looks like it is set in a medittearrean region and not Denmark. The only thing that makes it look like it's in Denmark is the clothing(Ariel's kingdom dress). But that's just a minor detail. And only because Eric should marry the princess of a scandinavian country(Flowerhaven or something like that) it doesn't mean his kingdom is scandinavian as well because he could easily marry a princess from any country all over Europe. I only bring this up because someone else brought this argument up. But anyway thank you, because you are probably the first person on the Internet who believes me that the little mermaid isn't set in Denmark :)

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    • I was thrilled to see this posting, I'm so glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. Everything points to it NOT being near Denmark and instead being closer to along the Meditterean coast line. Ariel's dress doesn't even seem Danish, it's just fashionable for a specfic time period. I found that tumblr post again and that even seemed like the writers intent as well: 

      In the filmmakers’ commentary, John Musker and Ron Clements said they wanted to give Eric’s kingdom a Mediterranean look: “That exterior of the palace Roland Wilson designed…uh, he was a great draftsman, he designed the prince’s palace. He did a drawing that we loved that combined these sort of Mediterranean elements, uh, made it a palace unlike any other sort of Disney fairy tale palace, and uh, with the white-washed stucco, and was really going for a warm, southern Mediterranean feel that he thought would be attractive to a mermaid who had been stuck all her life in the cold ocean.” John Musker (45:31-45:53)

      So yea, not Denmark. If I ever get around to writing a fic about Ariel it's not going to be set in Denmark. I'm glad that I'm not the only person though who sees it as not Denmark :) 

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    • You mention that there are flamingos during the “Kiss the Girl” sequence but then conclude that the movie is set in Italy? Flamingos in Italy?!?

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    • Unicorn22 wrote:
      You mention that there are flamingos during the “Kiss the Girl” sequence but then conclude that the movie is set in Italy? Flamingos in Italy?!?

      Lol, that made me giggle. Flamingos can be found in Italy though at least according to this article: 

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_flamingo 

      The greater flamingo are found in southern  Europe including: 

      SpainAlbaniaMacedoniaGreece,CyprusPortugalItaly, and the Camargue region of France

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    • No people who enjoy the movie or have interest of its accurate location, Study the Caspian Sea's real location, it's on the border of the states considered Central Asia or Eurasia Kazakastan or another state that touches this big lake. It's the humid tropical air that pleases animals such as the flamingo. 



      This isn't the northern ocean area of Europe it's the area some consider the Eurasian area or Central Asia Caspian is a huge lake between the two continents Europe and Asia. 

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    • Flamingo they aren't all the same color but they can be found quite wide near lakes beaches or coasts, they're even found in Florida with how much these big birds enjoy humid wet areas.

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    • Well Atlantica is a fictional kingdom. Think about Agrabah for example, which is a fictional Middle Eastern kingdom. Also kingdoms are not nesesarily their own countries. They can be in a country, and since Hans Christian Anderson is Danish, this is a fictional kingdom in Denmark, but they didn't bother to make it look Scandinavian. Arendelle is a fictional kingdom in Norway, so I believe that it is in Denmark but just not made to be accurate. It's DISNEY not a history book. It's just a cartoon.

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    • The Magic is pretend the Caspian Sea is a real Sea. If you read plenty of the old fantasy from libraries merpeople were actually almost worldwide. Ariel's just more famous than the ancient sea people mentioned in thin old folklore books at libraries. And mer people aren't the only ancient pretend magical sea species there's the tricky ones like Kelpie and other strange magical sea creatures. knowing other Central Asia states less, Kazakistan is the state I keep guessing. But the real Caspian Sea isn't far from Medeterranean Sea.

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    • Ursula mentions in Poor Unfotunate Souls "Beluga sevruga
      Come winds of the Caspian Sea". Thats a big easther egg to say that is localet in the Caspian Sea in the Turkemistan side due to the skin colour of Ariel in the future live action. 

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    • Still think it's set in the mediterranean sea somewhere and there's plenty of countries to chose from. 

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    • It's definitely not Denmark. The ocean appears to be too warm to be in northern Europe and there are no flamingos in Denmark. Also keep in mind that while H.C. Andersen was Danish, most of his fairy tales didn't take place in Denmark.

      There are only two possible locations: the Caribbean or the Mediterranean. I think I'll give the Mediterranean a slight edge because Atlantica is obviously based on Atlantis, which is often believed to be in the Mediterranean. There's also a lot of French influence in Eric's kingdom. This sorta implies that Eric's kingdom is actually a French island colony in the Mediterrenean (possibly the Habibas islands) and Eric is its prince regent representing King Louis Philippe I.

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    • TobenT wrote:
      It's definitely not Denmark. The ocean appears to be too warm to be in northern Europe and there are no flamingos in Denmark. Also keep in mind that while H.C. Andersen was Danish, most of his fairy tales didn't take place in Denmark.

      There are only two possible locations: the Caribbean or the Mediterranean. I think I'll give the Mediterranean a slight edge because Atlantica is obviously based on Atlantis, which is often believed to be in the Mediterranean. There's also a lot of French influence in Eric's kingdom. This sorta implies that Eric's kingdom is actually a French island colony in the Mediterrenean (possibly the Habibas islands) and Eric is its prince regent representing King Louis Philippe I.

      It could be that his kingdom is in what would be southern France, part of it sits on the mediterranean sea. I'm more partial to Greece because that's where the mermaid myth did begin. 

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    • Lovefiction wrote:
      TobenT wrote:
      It's definitely not Denmark. The ocean appears to be too warm to be in northern Europe and there are no flamingos in Denmark. Also keep in mind that while H.C. Andersen was Danish, most of his fairy tales didn't take place in Denmark.

      There are only two possible locations: the Caribbean or the Mediterranean. I think I'll give the Mediterranean a slight edge because Atlantica is obviously based on Atlantis, which is often believed to be in the Mediterranean. There's also a lot of French influence in Eric's kingdom. This sorta implies that Eric's kingdom is actually a French island colony in the Mediterrenean (possibly the Habibas islands) and Eric is its prince regent representing King Louis Philippe I.

      It could be that his kingdom is in what would be southern France, part of it sits on the mediterranean sea. I'm more partial to Greece because that's where the mermaid myth did begin. 

      There don't seem to be any signs of Greek culture in the movie. Eric's kingdom feels very "early 19th century French" in it. I'm also guessing it's an island because there are a lot of sunken ships in the area, the kingdom seems to rely on sea transport quite a lot, sea food appears to be very popular and the ocean appears to be very warm (indicating that it's in the south Mediterranean). So I find it most likely that Eric's kingdom is a French island somewhere off the Algerian coast (which the French had a very strong presence in at the time), which means Eric himself might be a French figurehead representing the French hold over the area. Nobody also seemed to mind that Eric married Ariel, who does not come from a recognized royal family, indicating that Eric is a non-dynastic prince, which was not uncommon in French culture.

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    • To be fair, beer tankards, not to mention beer itself, isn't exactly a known staple of France, either (if anything it's more of a German staple), and Lumiere did show the Eiffel Tower despite it taking place a century before it was built (not to mention had signs pointing to Anaheim and Burbank despite those obviously not being French locales at all, and if anything Californication in its most obvious). So it's not like Disney productions are too accurate to history.

      As far as The Little Mermaid and where it's set, Return to the Sea and the TV series does in fact imply it's up north (won't necessarily say Denmark, since it could be anywhere in Scandinavia). In the former, Morgana has a map to Atlantica and it pins it as being near Greenland, which given how close Atlantica is implied to be to Eric's kingdom (for example, a near-drowned newly-transformed Ariel took about from morning up to noon with help from her friends just to get to close vicinity towards Eric's Castle) would hint at it's location being around the same area, and in the latter, Hans Christian Anderson in the ending to Metal Fish was seen telling children what was presumably the tale of The Little Mermaid on Eric's docks. And even the original movie had a reference to Flowerhaven as well, which would point towards Scandinavian countries (not necessarily Denmark, but certainly within Northern Europe). Besides, Eric's castle was apparently based in part on either Chillon Castle, Switzerland or Tintagel Castle, Wales, neither of which are anywhere near the Mediterranean. Probably the only thing we can certainly say it could possibly take place is somewhere within the Atlantic Ocean and near Europe (can't be the Caribbean as those don't even have Princes, at most having Governors regarding colonies).

      As far as flamingoes, more likely than not that lagoon was privately owned by Eric, and it's not like Eric can't, say, import flamingoes in.

      And to be honest, there's very little suggesting it's anywhere near France barring maybe Louis being their chef (which, by that logic, Eric's kingdom is likely in Britain simply because his manservant Grimsby most likely hailed from that region).

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    • TobenT wrote:
      Lovefiction wrote:
      TobenT wrote:
      It's definitely not Denmark. The ocean appears to be too warm to be in northern Europe and there are no flamingos in Denmark. Also keep in mind that while H.C. Andersen was Danish, most of his fairy tales didn't take place in Denmark.

      There are only two possible locations: the Caribbean or the Mediterranean. I think I'll give the Mediterranean a slight edge because Atlantica is obviously based on Atlantis, which is often believed to be in the Mediterranean. There's also a lot of French influence in Eric's kingdom. This sorta implies that Eric's kingdom is actually a French island colony in the Mediterrenean (possibly the Habibas islands) and Eric is its prince regent representing King Louis Philippe I.

      It could be that his kingdom is in what would be southern France, part of it sits on the mediterranean sea. I'm more partial to Greece because that's where the mermaid myth did begin. 
      There don't seem to be any signs of Greek culture in the movie. Eric's kingdom feels very "early 19th century French" in it. I'm also guessing it's an island because there are a lot of sunken ships in the area, the kingdom seems to rely on sea transport quite a lot, sea food appears to be very popular and the ocean appears to be very warm (indicating that it's in the south Mediterranean). So I find it most likely that Eric's kingdom is a French island somewhere off the Algerian coast (which the French had a very strong presence in at the time), which means Eric himself might be a French figurehead representing the French hold over the area. Nobody also seemed to mind that Eric married Ariel, who does not come from a recognized royal family, indicating that Eric is a non-dynastic prince, which was not uncommon in French culture.

      Ohh I really love that idea that it's part of an island along the Mediterrean! The area does feel very tropical. I think the reason why I chose Greek was because how Eric's castle is very stucco inspired which is greco-roman in origin and partically with the mermaid myth. 

      Anyway, great theory! I think the island nature of the kingdom suits it best and a lot of the sea life seems like it would fit best. 

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    • Lovefiction wrote:

      TobenT wrote:
      Lovefiction wrote:
      TobenT wrote:
      It's definitely not Denmark. The ocean appears to be too warm to be in northern Europe and there are no flamingos in Denmark. Also keep in mind that while H.C. Andersen was Danish, most of his fairy tales didn't take place in Denmark.

      There are only two possible locations: the Caribbean or the Mediterranean. I think I'll give the Mediterranean a slight edge because Atlantica is obviously based on Atlantis, which is often believed to be in the Mediterranean. There's also a lot of French influence in Eric's kingdom. This sorta implies that Eric's kingdom is actually a French island colony in the Mediterrenean (possibly the Habibas islands) and Eric is its prince regent representing King Louis Philippe I.

      It could be that his kingdom is in what would be southern France, part of it sits on the mediterranean sea. I'm more partial to Greece because that's where the mermaid myth did begin. 
      There don't seem to be any signs of Greek culture in the movie. Eric's kingdom feels very "early 19th century French" in it. I'm also guessing it's an island because there are a lot of sunken ships in the area, the kingdom seems to rely on sea transport quite a lot, sea food appears to be very popular and the ocean appears to be very warm (indicating that it's in the south Mediterranean). So I find it most likely that Eric's kingdom is a French island somewhere off the Algerian coast (which the French had a very strong presence in at the time), which means Eric himself might be a French figurehead representing the French hold over the area. Nobody also seemed to mind that Eric married Ariel, who does not come from a recognized royal family, indicating that Eric is a non-dynastic prince, which was not uncommon in French culture.

      Ohh I really love that idea that it's part of an island along the Mediterrean! The area does feel very tropical. I think the reason why I chose Greek was because how Eric's castle is very stucco inspired which is greco-roman in origin and partically with the mermaid myth. 

      Anyway, great theory! I think the island nature of the kingdom suits it best and a lot of the sea life seems like it would fit best. 

      Eh, I don't think it's an island. Even continental places have a few sunken ships. Besides, we don't even know what caused the ships to sink in that sunken graveyard. Could be they rammed into reefs, could also be from naval battles.

      I might as well also note that Eric's Kingdom definitely doesn't come across as French. It might have some influences, but then again, France was still a fairly major powerhouse in Europe, so it wouldn't be surprising if Italy or Spain had some French influences. Also, for the record, in his debut scene, it was made clear that Eric was originally going to be betrothed to the princess of Glowerhaven, and in fact the statue birthday present was a last-minute alteration from what was originally meant to be a wedding gift, so it's pretty clear he WAS a dynastic prince from that alone. And considering Merpeople were attending Ariel and Eric's wedding, they clearly knew Ariel was from a royal family (heck, her father was an attendee, who was the king of the merpeople, and based on a sailor's remark right at the beginning, Triton was at least well known enough by the kingdom to be an urban legend). The movie taking place in Italy? Perhaps. In fact, until I jumped on the Denmark thing thanks to both Metal Fish AND TLM2, that and Glowerhaven, I DID initially think it was Italy. But French? No, not really. Never thought France even ONCE, especially when there was literally NOTHING to suggest it was located in France (and no, Louie the Chef doesn't count, as that just means they hired a cook from France. It's like saying TLM takes place in Great Britain just because a British guy, Grimsby, is Eric's majordomo).

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    • ^ even it's not an island, it's definitely set in a southern region where navel battles would have been practiced. 

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    • Lovefiction wrote: ^ even it's not an island, it's definitely set in a southern region where navel battles would have been practiced. 

      Northern areas of Europe also had naval battles as well (let's not forget about the Spanish Armada invasion of Great Britain). Besides, neither Chillon Castle nor Tintagel Castle are anywhere near the Mediterranean, anyhow, and those apparently formed the basis for Eric's Castle.

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    • Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote: ^ even it's not an island, it's definitely set in a southern region where navel battles would have been practiced. 

      Northern areas of Europe also had naval battles as well (let's not forget about the Spanish Armada invasion of Great Britain). Besides, neither Chillon Castle nor Tintagel Castle are anywhere near the Mediterranean, anyhow, and those apparently formed the basis for Eric's Castle.

      There's no source indicating that they inspired his castle. In the audio commentary with Ron and John on the Platium edition says that they were going for a mediterrean look with the stucco designs. 

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    • Lovefiction wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote: ^ even it's not an island, it's definitely set in a southern region where navel battles would have been practiced. 

      Northern areas of Europe also had naval battles as well (let's not forget about the Spanish Armada invasion of Great Britain). Besides, neither Chillon Castle nor Tintagel Castle are anywhere near the Mediterranean, anyhow, and those apparently formed the basis for Eric's Castle.

      There's no source indicating that they inspired his castle. In the audio commentary with Ron and John on the Platium edition says that they were going for a mediterrean look with the stucco designs. 

      Yeah, well tell that to the Wiki article for Prince Eric's Castle and its editors. Besides, Metal Fish and Return to the Sea pointed toward northern Europe anyhow, and even the original film had a reference to Glowerhaven by Eric, with it being implied that the failed marriage plans had occurred fairly recently, meaning Glowerhaven had to have been close enough to Eric's kingdom for Grimsby to do a short-notice repurposing of Eric's statue as his birthday present instead of a wedding gift (I can tell you this much: Glowerhaven is not a name known among the Mediterranean, more closer to northern Europe). And make no mistake, if it weren't for Metal Fish or Return to the Sea, I would have said it was in Italy, and in fact, I did think that initially until those came up.

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    • Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote: ^ even it's not an island, it's definitely set in a southern region where navel battles would have been practiced. 

      Northern areas of Europe also had naval battles as well (let's not forget about the Spanish Armada invasion of Great Britain). Besides, neither Chillon Castle nor Tintagel Castle are anywhere near the Mediterranean, anyhow, and those apparently formed the basis for Eric's Castle.
      There's no source indicating that they inspired his castle. In the audio commentary with Ron and John on the Platium edition says that they were going for a mediterrean look with the stucco designs. 
      Yeah, well tell that to the Wiki article for Prince Eric's Castle and its editors. Besides, Metal Fish and Return to the Sea pointed toward northern Europe anyhow, and even the original film had a reference to Glowerhaven by Eric, with it being implied that the failed marriage plans had occurred fairly recently, meaning Glowerhaven had to have been close enough to Eric's kingdom for Grimsby to do a short-notice repurposing of Eric's statue as his birthday present instead of a wedding gift (I can tell you this much: Glowerhaven is not a name known among the Mediterranean, more closer to northern Europe).

      Well there should be a source otherwise that's an assumption because it's just based on the location where the writer came from. The tv series and the sequel as far as I know is not considered canon. Glowerhaven can be considered anywhere in the world as far as I know. 

      All I know is that the writers/creators intended his kingdom to be a southern mediterrean country based on the audio commentary on the DVD. I'm going to take their word for it and place it where I think that it should be. This discussion is just an opinion and I'm just going to keep it where I think I should be. Thanks for giving me a good debating piece :-) 

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    • Lovefiction wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote: ^ even it's not an island, it's definitely set in a southern region where navel battles would have been practiced. 

      Northern areas of Europe also had naval battles as well (let's not forget about the Spanish Armada invasion of Great Britain). Besides, neither Chillon Castle nor Tintagel Castle are anywhere near the Mediterranean, anyhow, and those apparently formed the basis for Eric's Castle.
      There's no source indicating that they inspired his castle. In the audio commentary with Ron and John on the Platium edition says that they were going for a mediterrean look with the stucco designs. 
      Yeah, well tell that to the Wiki article for Prince Eric's Castle and its editors. Besides, Metal Fish and Return to the Sea pointed toward northern Europe anyhow, and even the original film had a reference to Glowerhaven by Eric, with it being implied that the failed marriage plans had occurred fairly recently, meaning Glowerhaven had to have been close enough to Eric's kingdom for Grimsby to do a short-notice repurposing of Eric's statue as his birthday present instead of a wedding gift (I can tell you this much: Glowerhaven is not a name known among the Mediterranean, more closer to northern Europe).

      Well there should be a source otherwise that's an assumption because it's just based on the location where the writer came from. The tv series and the sequel as far as I know is not considered canon. Glowerhaven can be considered anywhere in the world as far as I know. 

      All I know is that the writers/creators intended his kingdom to be a southern mediterrean country based on the audio commentary on the DVD. I'm going to take their word for it and place it where I think that it should be. This discussion is just an opinion and I'm just going to keep it where I think I should be. Thanks for giving me a good debating piece :-) 

      I'm pretty sure the TV series and Return to the Sea are in fact canon, especially when the books referenced several elements from those bits (Dudley the turtle, for example, cameoed in that Aquamarine Jewel story, and the story where a dolphin ended up trapped had that wall from Return to the Sea being referenced). Besides, if they weren't canon, I'm doubtful they'd get rereleases, let alone special editions. I know Metal Gear Ghost Babel, Snake's Revenge, and the Metal Gear Ac!d games never got rereleased under any capacity under Kojima's watch. Heck, the TV series even went as far as to preserve continuity between the TV series and the original movie by deliberately avoiding having Ariel and Eric get a direct glimpse of each other (something I simply cannot imagine them doing if they thought it wasn't canon. If I were in their shoes and I thought the TV series wasn't canon, I'd have them meet early since, hey, it's not gonna matter since it won't be canon anyways.). Heck, the recent Castle book even references locations in Atlantica Castle that were from the TV series, and even had the guards from Return to the Sea in there as well.

      Plus, I think the writers had some input from the TV series. At least, that's what I heard on Little Ariel Forums.

      Besides, won't be the last time they screwed up with a setting. Look at Aladdin for example: That's supposed to be set during the height of the Ottoman Empire, yet A Whole New World had a brief scene where an ancient Egyptian ended up accidentally destroying the nose of the Sphinx, implying it was actually during Ancient times.

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    • I was randomly linked to this and thought to post here. Thanks Disney for confirming that Eric's kingdom is in Italy. Did not honestly expect to see an answer to this. It's from the official Disney Princess YouTube page lol. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVPIgiWDUQ&feature=youtu.be 

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    • Lovefiction wrote: I was randomly linked to this and thought to post here. Thanks Disney for confirming that Eric's kingdom is in Italy. Did not honestly expect to see an answer to this. It's from the official Disney Princess YouTube page lol. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVPIgiWDUQ&feature=youtu.be 

      This again?! Look, that series of videos has gotten at least one thing wrong: the video that discussed Belle, for example, claimed that Beast's castle was based on Notre Dame of Paris due to the gargoyles, when in reality, Notre Dame had NO basis for Beast's castle. In fact, the gargoyles were taken from prototype designs for Beast himself. And the same video also implied that no one visited public libraries at the time, when in reality, the setting of the film was during the Golden Age of Libraries.

      And just because it came from an official source doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. The Metal Gear Solid 4 Database was an official source, yet that source was rather notorious for being riddled with a lot of errors regarding the franchise up to that point.

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    • Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote: I was randomly linked to this and thought to post here. Thanks Disney for confirming that Eric's kingdom is in Italy. Did not honestly expect to see an answer to this. It's from the official Disney Princess YouTube page lol. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVPIgiWDUQ&feature=youtu.be 

      This again?! Look, that series of videos has gotten at least one thing wrong: the video that discussed Belle, for example, claimed that Beast's castle was based on Notre Dame of Paris due to the gargoyles, when in reality, Notre Dame had NO basis for Beast's castle. In fact, the gargoyles were taken from prototype designs for Beast himself. And the same video also implied that no one visited public libraries at the time, when in reality, the setting of the film was during the Golden Age of Libraries.

      And just because it came from an official source doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. The Metal Gear Solid 4 Database was an official source, yet that source was rather notorious for being riddled with a lot of errors regarding the franchise up to that point.

      What are you talking about? That's not what this thread is about and completely off topic. I'm not telling you exactly, I'm telling those who actually like the idea of TLM being in a different country. You're not swaying my opinion, just sayin. Thanks for the debate though :) 

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    • Lovefiction wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote: I was randomly linked to this and thought to post here. Thanks Disney for confirming that Eric's kingdom is in Italy. Did not honestly expect to see an answer to this. It's from the official Disney Princess YouTube page lol. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVPIgiWDUQ&feature=youtu.be 

      This again?! Look, that series of videos has gotten at least one thing wrong: the video that discussed Belle, for example, claimed that Beast's castle was based on Notre Dame of Paris due to the gargoyles, when in reality, Notre Dame had NO basis for Beast's castle. In fact, the gargoyles were taken from prototype designs for Beast himself. And the same video also implied that no one visited public libraries at the time, when in reality, the setting of the film was during the Golden Age of Libraries.

      And just because it came from an official source doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. The Metal Gear Solid 4 Database was an official source, yet that source was rather notorious for being riddled with a lot of errors regarding the franchise up to that point.

      What are you talking about? That's not what this thread is about and completely off topic. I'm not telling you exactly, I'm telling those who actually like the idea of TLM being in a different country. You're not swaying my opinion, just sayin. Thanks for the debate though :) 

      You brought up that Disney Princess Channel video, and I was simply pointing out that the fact that one of the Fun Facts made at least one glaring error makes the videos use as a source suspect at the very least, even if it comes from an official network. So it's better off if you used development notes and stuff like that from the actual creators directly to go by what's stated (and no, barring that DP Fun Fact video, there was nothing specifically saying that The Little Mermaid takes place in Italy).

      And just for the record, I don't mind it taking place in Italy. In fact, I actually thought it took place there myself when I was younger. However, the TV series as well as Return to the Sea among other things destroyed that theory with Metal Fish and Morgana's Map (and since Disney clearly hadn't jettisoned any of those things from canon to the extent that they don't get rereleases, which most canon stuff in various franchises do like, say, Metal Gear, I have to count the TV series and Return to the Sea as canon. Ariel's Beginning's probably the only exception, and that's only because too much of the plot and characterizations were divorced from the original).

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    • Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote:


      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote: I was randomly linked to this and thought to post here. Thanks Disney for confirming that Eric's kingdom is in Italy. Did not honestly expect to see an answer to this. It's from the official Disney Princess YouTube page lol. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVPIgiWDUQ&feature=youtu.be 

      This again?! Look, that series of videos has gotten at least one thing wrong: the video that discussed Belle, for example, claimed that Beast's castle was based on Notre Dame of Paris due to the gargoyles, when in reality, Notre Dame had NO basis for Beast's castle. In fact, the gargoyles were taken from prototype designs for Beast himself. And the same video also implied that no one visited public libraries at the time, when in reality, the setting of the film was during the Golden Age of Libraries.

      And just because it came from an official source doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. The Metal Gear Solid 4 Database was an official source, yet that source was rather notorious for being riddled with a lot of errors regarding the franchise up to that point.

      What are you talking about? That's not what this thread is about and completely off topic. I'm not telling you exactly, I'm telling those who actually like the idea of TLM being in a different country. You're not swaying my opinion, just sayin. Thanks for the debate though :) 
      You brought up that Disney Princess Channel video, and I was simply pointing out that the fact that one of the Fun Facts made at least one glaring error makes the videos use as a source suspect at the very least, even if it comes from an official network. So it's better off if you used development notes and stuff like that from the actual creators directly to go by what's stated (and no, barring that DP Fun Fact video, there was nothing specifically saying that The Little Mermaid takes place in Italy).

      And just for the record, I don't mind it taking place in Italy. In fact, I actually thought it took place there myself when I was younger. However, the TV series as well as Return to the Sea among other things destroyed that theory with Metal Fish and Morgana's Map (and since Disney clearly hadn't jettisoned any of those things from canon to the extent that they don't get rereleases, which most canon stuff in various franchises do like, say, Metal Gear, I have to count the TV series and Return to the Sea as canon. Ariel's Beginning's probably the only exception, and that's only because too much of the plot and characterizations were divorced from the original).

      Ahh okay, I was confused, like huh what does Metal Gear have to do with anything (I know nothing about that franchise so i was very confused lol). I don't know the ocean is very big and the geography was everywhere in the series, it wasn't consistent like at all lol. 

      It's the sequel that I don't get it placing as part of canon. Mainly because that means we'll have to consider all of the direct to dvd sequels as part of canon. Then there are many of those that don't quite match up with the original movie. Ariel's beginning and Return to the sea don't always match up to the original in many ways. So really counts as canon and what doesn't kind of thing ran through my mind. What kind of distance did they swim in each incarnation. Then there's the fact that you can consider which castle is the one where Eric is originally from and which one is his vacation home. Canon for me gets very confusing. 

      Since this conversation is more about canon, if you want to continue we'd have to move to keep from straying off topic. 

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    • Lovefiction wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Lovefiction wrote: I was randomly linked to this and thought to post here. Thanks Disney for confirming that Eric's kingdom is in Italy. Did not honestly expect to see an answer to this. It's from the official Disney Princess YouTube page lol. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVPIgiWDUQ&feature=youtu.be 

      This again?! Look, that series of videos has gotten at least one thing wrong: the video that discussed Belle, for example, claimed that Beast's castle was based on Notre Dame of Paris due to the gargoyles, when in reality, Notre Dame had NO basis for Beast's castle. In fact, the gargoyles were taken from prototype designs for Beast himself. And the same video also implied that no one visited public libraries at the time, when in reality, the setting of the film was during the Golden Age of Libraries.

      And just because it came from an official source doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. The Metal Gear Solid 4 Database was an official source, yet that source was rather notorious for being riddled with a lot of errors regarding the franchise up to that point.

      What are you talking about? That's not what this thread is about and completely off topic. I'm not telling you exactly, I'm telling those who actually like the idea of TLM being in a different country. You're not swaying my opinion, just sayin. Thanks for the debate though :) 
      You brought up that Disney Princess Channel video, and I was simply pointing out that the fact that one of the Fun Facts made at least one glaring error makes the videos use as a source suspect at the very least, even if it comes from an official network. So it's better off if you used development notes and stuff like that from the actual creators directly to go by what's stated (and no, barring that DP Fun Fact video, there was nothing specifically saying that The Little Mermaid takes place in Italy).

      And just for the record, I don't mind it taking place in Italy. In fact, I actually thought it took place there myself when I was younger. However, the TV series as well as Return to the Sea among other things destroyed that theory with Metal Fish and Morgana's Map (and since Disney clearly hadn't jettisoned any of those things from canon to the extent that they don't get rereleases, which most canon stuff in various franchises do like, say, Metal Gear, I have to count the TV series and Return to the Sea as canon. Ariel's Beginning's probably the only exception, and that's only because too much of the plot and characterizations were divorced from the original).

      Ahh okay, I was confused, like huh what does Metal Gear have to do with anything (I know nothing about that franchise so i was very confused lol). I don't know the ocean is very big and the geography was everywhere in the series, it wasn't consistent like at all lol. 

      It's the sequel that I don't get it placing as part of canon. Mainly because that means we'll have to consider all of the direct to dvd sequels as part of canon. Then there are many of those that don't quite match up with the original movie. Ariel's beginning and Return to the sea don't always match up to the original in many ways. So really counts as canon and what doesn't kind of thing ran through my mind. 

      At least with Return to the Sea, most of the "contradictions" in that movie can be easily and reasonably explained away by some factors (for example, the Trident not being able to harm humans may have been implemented by Triton as part of his peace offering with Prince Eric as a result of his marrying Ariel, and even the grotto being intact can be explained as Triton repairing it partly as penance for his big blow-up there.).

      Ariel's Beginning, on the other hand, has far too many instances you can't even rationalize away, like for example, the fact that they completely swapped Ariel's sisters birth order, or how King Triton had music being the focus of his ire regarding Athena's death, NOT humans (not to mention didn't even implement a surfacing ban based on Marina del Rey's surfacing and making beach angels (and also managing to do a parody of Ariel's iconic pose) after busting Sebastian's little nightclub, despite the fact that a surfacing ban was imposed by Triton in the first film, and given how North Korea-esque Atlantica was in Ariel's Beginning, not to mention what happened to Sebastian when he got caught, she pretty much risked getting fired at the very least just from that had that ban been in effect.). Not to mention Ariel doesn't have ANY interest in humans in that movie, a very key aspect to her character, nor does she even develop any interest in them in any way (and she doesn't even meet Scuttle, and in fact, Scuttle only has a brief cameo where he attempts to troll Marina during her celebration scene, and doesn't even TALK. Say what you will about Scuttle and appearing more braindead in Return to the Sea, at least he actually had lines of dialogue and still retained anthropomorphism, while Scuttle in Ariel's Beginning might as well have been Max or Glut in terms of sapience/sentience for all we know.), and there was absolutely no music ban that was even implied to have occurred in the past in that movie, let alone that Ariel had been instrumental in lifting that ban (not to mention, due to her role in lifting that ban, she would have been made band leader of Triton's daughter's band, NOT wait at least a year to have her debut song (which she ended up missing, anyways, thanks to being distracted with plundering a ship), you know, like how Big Boss founded FOXHOUND in Portable Ops [19:55 is where the main action is, though feel free to watch the whole thing to see how it gets to that point].). And don't get me started on how massively out of character Sebastian and Flounder, even Ariel to a certain extent, were in that movie, especially compared to the original. While in Return to the Sea, you could at least justify it as them having matured somewhat, the same can't be said in Ariel's Beginning which comes across as having reverse development in the original, and not even bothering to give a lead-in for their change in character (I'm sorry, but in the original film, Flounder was a massive worry wart, he was not the type to willingly take risks or be a beatboxer. And Sebastian? That guy couldn't even keep a secret about Ariel saving a human if his life depended on it, despite obsessively trying to keep it a secret in a very paranoid fashion. He most certainly would not have created a secret Catfish Band club under Triton's nose). Ariel would probably have turned out like Sebastian and Flounder had Jodi Benson not intervened on her behalf where she at least managed to get them to retain Ariel's more rebellious streak. Plus, it literally can't fit into the timeline anyways thanks to Sebastian singing a song by Harry Belafonte that shouldn't even exist in that time period (being at least a century before that song was released). To put it another way, Ariel's Beginning rendered the entire original movie as being impossible to have occurred. At least the TV series made sure to avoid major plot contradictions, like, I don't know, making sure Ariel and Eric never met or even get a direct glimpse of each other prior to the original movie.

      And might as well give you a bit of a primer on Metal Gear Solid. It's a tactical espionage stealth game made by Hideo Kojima where the objective is basically to take down nuclear bipedal tanks called Metal Gear. There are at least nine games that are part of the canon (technically 11 if we're to count Portable Ops and Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance as canon, since they're a bit in the gray area due to Kojima being iffy regarding those two). They are Metal Gear (MSX2), Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, Metal Gear Solid (and its remake The Twin Snakes), Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker, Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes, and Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain. Those games get rereleases and even some expansions, due largely to their being counted as canon. The ones that don't get rereleased are the ones that are deemed non-canonical, such as Snake's Revenge, Metal Gear Ghost Babel, and the Metal Gear Ac!d games (the jury's out on whether Metal Gear Survive's ever going to get a rerelease, though), not as gold editions or even as downloadable games. Probably the only exception is Metal Gear Solid 4, and that's only because Kojima basically made it impossible to play on any system other than a PS3, though even that at least got a downloadable game. As far as Metal Gear Solid 4 Database, because Metal Gear Solid 4 was intended by Kojima to be the last game in the franchise (well, that's what he says every time anyways), he had a little story encyclopedia released as a way to catch up with various aspects of the story up to that point. Unfortunately, certain articles had some really big mistakes or omissions that contradicted past games, such as claiming that Solidus deliberately rammed Arsenal Gear into New York City as a last-ditch effort to stop the Patriots, when in the actual game, he merely lost control of it (and in a deleted scene for the game due to it being due for release just after 9/11, Liquid Ocelot was responsible for Arsenal Gear going haywire and crashing into Manhattan.). That's what I was trying to get at regarding taking sources, even official ones, with a grain of salt.

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    • Obviously there is room for creative license here, but this is clearly happening in the Caspian Sea, it says so right in the lyrics. This means it isn't Mediterranean and it definitely isn't in the Caribbean!

        Loading editor
    • Chicamv wrote:
      but this is clearly happening in the Caspian Sea, it says so right in the lyrics. This means it isn't Mediterranean and it definitely isn't in the Caribbean!

      No it doesn't. She just says "beluga, sevruga, come winds of the Caspian sea". For all we know, the spell she was using simply originated from the Caspian sea.

      But everything points out to the story taking place in the Mediterranean. The architecture and culture of Eric's kingdom is predominantly French and Italian. There's a whole graveyard of shipwrecks, which implies there have been a lot of naval battles in the area. Eric's ship and palace are decorated with the fleur-de-lis, which is primarily associated with French royalty. Ariel's mother was crushed to death by pirate ships clashing, and the Mediterranean was filled with pirates and corsairs during the time the story takes place (which is supposedly in the early 19th century). Melody makes her way to the Arctic on a boat and swims to Atlantica as a mermaid, so if the story takes place in the Caspian sea, that wouldn't be possible since the Caspian doesn't connect with the Atlantic ocean and the lyrics of "Under the Sea" heavily imply that the story takes place in either the Caribbean or the Mediterranean, but the rest of the movie leans more towards the Mediterranean. Even the developers of the first movie said they were going for a Mediterranean vibe.

        Loading editor
    • TobenT wrote:

      Chicamv wrote:
      but this is clearly happening in the Caspian Sea, it says so right in the lyrics. This means it isn't Mediterranean and it definitely isn't in the Caribbean!

      No it doesn't. She just says "beluga, sevruga, come winds of the Caspian sea". For all we know, the spell she was using simply originated from the Caspian sea.

      But everything points out to the story taking place in the Mediterranean. The architecture and culture of Eric's kingdom is predominantly French and Italian. There's a whole graveyard of shipwrecks, which implies there have been a lot of naval battles in the area. Eric's ship and palace are decorated with the fleur-de-lis, which is primarily associated with French royalty. Ariel's mother was crushed to death by pirate ships clashing, and the Mediterranean was filled with pirates and corsairs during the time the story takes place (which is supposedly in the early 19th century). Melody makes her way to the Arctic on a boat and swims to Atlantica as a mermaid, so if the story takes place in the Caspian sea, that wouldn't be possible since the Caspian doesn't connect with the Atlantic ocean and the lyrics of "Under the Sea" heavily imply that the story takes place in either the Caribbean or the Mediterranean, but the rest of the movie leans more towards the Mediterranean. Even the developers of the first movie said they were going for a Mediterranean vibe.

      Problem is, stuff such as Return to the Sea had Atlantica being closer to Iceland, and then there's Metal Fish in the TV series, which had HCA, the original author of the tale, making a key role in that episode, and more importantly telling the fairy tale in the ending of the episode at Eric's Kingdom. Also, let's not forget that there were plenty of naval wrecks around the north Atlantic as well (remember the Spanish Armada that tried to invade Britain?). One thing I can agree with is that it's certainly not in the Caspian Sea (Return to the Sea alone destroys that theory, and besides, the final battle with Ursula isn't nearly as impressive if she were the usurper queen of a land-locked sea).

      As far as pirates, the Atlantic had plenty of piracy, believe it or not (in fact, arguably Atlantic piracy was more famous, or rather, infamous than Mediterranean piracy, about having as much infamy as Carribbean piracy), so that doesn't rule out Denmark. And let's not forget, Barbary Pirates during the early 19th century were very widespread. Heck, they're practically the reason America even HAS a naval force to this day. And regarding Eric's nationality, Eric's technically a Scandinavian name.

        Loading editor
    • Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      TobenT wrote:

      Chicamv wrote:
      but this is clearly happening in the Caspian Sea, it says so right in the lyrics. This means it isn't Mediterranean and it definitely isn't in the Caribbean!
      No it doesn't. She just says "beluga, sevruga, come winds of the Caspian sea". For all we know, the spell she was using simply originated from the Caspian sea.

      But everything points out to the story taking place in the Mediterranean. The architecture and culture of Eric's kingdom is predominantly French and Italian. There's a whole graveyard of shipwrecks, which implies there have been a lot of naval battles in the area. Eric's ship and palace are decorated with the fleur-de-lis, which is primarily associated with French royalty. Ariel's mother was crushed to death by pirate ships clashing, and the Mediterranean was filled with pirates and corsairs during the time the story takes place (which is supposedly in the early 19th century). Melody makes her way to the Arctic on a boat and swims to Atlantica as a mermaid, so if the story takes place in the Caspian sea, that wouldn't be possible since the Caspian doesn't connect with the Atlantic ocean and the lyrics of "Under the Sea" heavily imply that the story takes place in either the Caribbean or the Mediterranean, but the rest of the movie leans more towards the Mediterranean. Even the developers of the first movie said they were going for a Mediterranean vibe.

      Problem is, stuff such as Return to the Sea had Atlantica being closer to Iceland, and then there's Metal Fish in the TV series, which had HCA, the original author of the tale, making a key role in that episode, and more importantly telling the fairy tale in the ending of the episode at Eric's Kingdom. Also, let's not forget that there were plenty of naval wrecks around the north Atlantic as well (remember the Spanish Armada that tried to invade Britain?). One thing I can agree with is that it's certainly not in the Caspian Sea (Return to the Sea alone destroys that theory, and besides, the final battle with Ursula isn't nearly as impressive if she were the usurper queen of a land-locked sea).

      As far as pirates, the Atlantic had plenty of piracy, believe it or not (in fact, arguably Atlantic piracy was more famous, or rather, infamous than Mediterranean piracy, about having as much infamy as Carribbean piracy), so that doesn't rule out Denmark. And let's not forget, Barbary Pirates during the early 19th century were very widespread. Heck, they're practically the reason America even HAS a naval force to this day. And regarding Eric's nationality, Eric's technically a Scandinavian name.

      Return to the Sea doesn't indicate that it's anywhere near Iceland. And that wouldn't make any sense since Iceland and its surrounding waters were very isolated at that time and the ocean would be way too cold for all those tropical fish to be in. Not to mention all the flamingos and turtles, which are nowhere to be found anywhere near the Danish realm. If you're basing this on how fast Melody travelled to the Arctic, that doesn't indicate anything either. Because she had help reaching the Arctic in the first place and as a mermaid, she is able to swim at an unmeasurable speed and the map to Atlantica isn't detailed enough for us to see the exact location of the setting.

      As for Atlantic piracy, those were very rare in the Norwegian Sea and the Greenland Strait since pirates mainly profitted from slave trade and strong trade routes and rarely went far outside pirate havens like the Bahamas and northern Africa. In fact, the only time I can think of when pirates went that far north was the Barbary raids on Iceland in the 17th century. And that is the only record of Barbary pirates ever going so far up north.

      And while naval battles were common pretty much anywhere among the European powers, the Mediterranean has the longest history of naval warfare in Europe. Especially near France, Spain and Africa in the 1700s and 1800s due to pirates, the Napoleonic wars, the Barbary wars, the Greek War of Independence etc.

      And I don't think H.C. Andersen's appearance makes a difference. H.C. Andersen was an avid supporter of multiculturalism and most of his stories took place outside Denmark. Even the original The Little Mermaid story takes place somewhere near northern Africa. And let's not forget that Andersen travelled a lot in real life. He based some of his stories on his visits to Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Morocco, England and the Ottoman Empire.

      And Eric may be a Germanic name, but that name is also used by the English, French and Spanish with different pronunciation. And even if you use the mention of the Germanic-sounding Glowerhaven to move Eric's nationality more to the north, you should know that European royals were often arranged to marry royals outside their ethnolinguistic group. For example, Maria Feodorovna, mother of Tsar Nicholas II, was a Danish princess before becoming the Empress consort of Russia. The British and German royalties also had similar connections to Greece, Sweden, Austria and Spain during the Victorian era. Besides, names don't necessarily determine your nationality or ethnicity. I mean, my first name is of Hebrew origins but that doesn't mean I'm Jewish.

      But Eric is most likely French given that his kingdom has a very strong Franco-Italian influence, his ship is decorated with fleur-de-lis and he wears an 18th century ceremonial French military uniform at the wedding.

        Loading editor
    • TobenT wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      TobenT wrote:

      Chicamv wrote:
      but this is clearly happening in the Caspian Sea, it says so right in the lyrics. This means it isn't Mediterranean and it definitely isn't in the Caribbean!
      No it doesn't. She just says "beluga, sevruga, come winds of the Caspian sea". For all we know, the spell she was using simply originated from the Caspian sea.

      But everything points out to the story taking place in the Mediterranean. The architecture and culture of Eric's kingdom is predominantly French and Italian. There's a whole graveyard of shipwrecks, which implies there have been a lot of naval battles in the area. Eric's ship and palace are decorated with the fleur-de-lis, which is primarily associated with French royalty. Ariel's mother was crushed to death by pirate ships clashing, and the Mediterranean was filled with pirates and corsairs during the time the story takes place (which is supposedly in the early 19th century). Melody makes her way to the Arctic on a boat and swims to Atlantica as a mermaid, so if the story takes place in the Caspian sea, that wouldn't be possible since the Caspian doesn't connect with the Atlantic ocean and the lyrics of "Under the Sea" heavily imply that the story takes place in either the Caribbean or the Mediterranean, but the rest of the movie leans more towards the Mediterranean. Even the developers of the first movie said they were going for a Mediterranean vibe.

      Problem is, stuff such as Return to the Sea had Atlantica being closer to Iceland, and then there's Metal Fish in the TV series, which had HCA, the original author of the tale, making a key role in that episode, and more importantly telling the fairy tale in the ending of the episode at Eric's Kingdom. Also, let's not forget that there were plenty of naval wrecks around the north Atlantic as well (remember the Spanish Armada that tried to invade Britain?). One thing I can agree with is that it's certainly not in the Caspian Sea (Return to the Sea alone destroys that theory, and besides, the final battle with Ursula isn't nearly as impressive if she were the usurper queen of a land-locked sea).

      As far as pirates, the Atlantic had plenty of piracy, believe it or not (in fact, arguably Atlantic piracy was more famous, or rather, infamous than Mediterranean piracy, about having as much infamy as Carribbean piracy), so that doesn't rule out Denmark. And let's not forget, Barbary Pirates during the early 19th century were very widespread. Heck, they're practically the reason America even HAS a naval force to this day. And regarding Eric's nationality, Eric's technically a Scandinavian name.

      Return to the Sea doesn't indicate that it's anywhere near Iceland. And that wouldn't make any sense since Iceland and its surrounding waters were very isolated at that time and the ocean would be way too cold for all those tropical fish to be in. Not to mention all the flamingos and turtles, which are nowhere to be found anywhere near the Danish realm. If you're basing this on how fast Melody travelled to the Arctic, that doesn't indicate anything either. Because she had help reaching the Arctic in the first place and as a mermaid, she is able to swim at an unmeasurable speed and the map to Atlantica isn't detailed enough for us to see the exact location of the setting.

      As for Atlantic piracy, those were very rare in the Norwegian Sea and the Greenland Strait since pirates mainly profitted from slave trade and strong trade routes and rarely went far outside pirate havens like the Bahamas and northern Africa. In fact, the only time I can think of when pirates went that far north was the Barbary raids on Iceland in the 17th century. And that is the only record of Barbary pirates ever going so far up north.

      And while naval battles were common pretty much anywhere among the European powers, the Mediterranean has the longest history of naval warfare in Europe. Especially near France, Spain and Africa in the 1700s and 1800s due to pirates, the Napoleonic wars, the Barbary wars, the Greek War of Independence etc.

      And I don't think H.C. Andersen's appearance makes a difference. H.C. Andersen was an avid supporter of multiculturalism and most of his stories took place outside Denmark. Even the original The Little Mermaid story takes place somewhere near northern Africa. And let's not forget that Andersen travelled a lot in real life. He based some of his stories on his visits to Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Morocco, England and the Ottoman Empire.

      And Eric may be a Germanic name, but that name is also used by the English, French and Spanish with different pronunciation. And even if you use the mention of the Germanic-sounding Glowerhaven to move Eric's nationality more to the north, you should know that European royals were often arranged to marry royals outside their ethnolinguistic group. For example, Maria Feodorovna, mother of Tsar Nicholas II, was a Danish princess before becoming the Empress consort of Russia. The British and German royalties also had similar connections to Greece, Sweden, Austria and Spain during the Victorian era. Besides, names don't necessarily determine your nationality or ethnicity. I mean, my first name is of Hebrew origins but that doesn't mean I'm Jewish.

      But Eric is most likely French given that his kingdom has a very strong Franco-Italian influence, his ship is decorated with fleur-de-lis and he wears an 18th century ceremonial French military uniform at the wedding.

      1. Okay, sorry, my mistake, it's Greenland, not Iceland (Morgana's map). Even still, however, RTTS still showed at least one set of evidence of it being somewhere OTHER than the Mediterranean. And don't get me started on how the TV series had not only a meeting with Hans Christian Andersen and inspiring him in-universe to write the original tale, but also tell the tale at Eric's docks. And I think the fact that Andersen was telling his story in a place that was implied to be his homeland would point to it being Denmark.

      2. It may have the longest history, but it's never said whether those ships came from differing periods of history. For all we know, all those ships that Ariel visited originated from the exact same conflict/event. Heck, for all we know, those ships she plundered and were used in the final battle could have just as easily been British and Spanish ships dating back to the time of the Spanish Armada.

      3. True, but the problem is that sailing periods generally spanned a matter of months, especially back then (going from Britain to America, for example, took two months, and the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria took a quarter of a year to get from Portugal to the Americas, and that's just on the first trip, and not even getting into the return trip. Not to mention part of the reason the American founding fathers barring Jefferson and Paine were slow to realize what actually was going on during the French Revolution was precisely because messages to and from France took months via sailing, by which point the event had already passed.), which is still far too long ESPECIALLY given how recent the marriage proposal was implied to be (at least recent enough that Grimsby repurposed the statue of Eric as a birthday present largely because the proposal went south. The way they were talking indicated that it occurred weeks ago at most.). It would have been far too long realistically to be able to work like that, especially if, say, he was going from the Mediterranean to northern Europe and back.

      And I'm pretty doubtful he's French, actually. Eric isn't exactly a common name in France, not to mention I don't recall windmills being a particularly common feature in France (those being more of a Scandinavian/Northern European element). Maybe if he was named "Prince Pierre" or "Prince Jean" or even "Prince Gaston" for that matter, I'd be a bit more willing to buy France as his home country, but as it is, other than Louie being the chef (which is as much proof of Eric's kingdom being French as it is being British or Italian due to Grimsby and Caroletta [sp?] being among his staff), there's literally nothing pointing to it being French (and I'm pretty sure the Brits wore similar uniforms as well, not to mention the Spanish and Portugese). And having the fleur-de-lis doesn't cut it either. New Orleans has the fleur-de-lis as a city symbol, and It's not even part of France (well, not anymore, anyways) and it sure as heck isn't a monarchy even when it WAS part of France, being a colony. Heck, the Fleur-de-lis is actually the logo of one of the neighborhoods in Sandy Springs/Dunwoody, Georgia, and Georgia was NEVER owned in any capacity by the French (it was a British colony first and foremost).

        Loading editor
    • TobenT wrote:
      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      TobenT wrote:


      Chicamv wrote:
      but this is clearly happening in the Caspian Sea, it says so right in the lyrics. This means it isn't Mediterranean and it definitely isn't in the Caribbean!
      No it doesn't. She just says "beluga, sevruga, come winds of the Caspian sea". For all we know, the spell she was using simply originated from the Caspian sea.

      But everything points out to the story taking place in the Mediterranean. The architecture and culture of Eric's kingdom is predominantly French and Italian. There's a whole graveyard of shipwrecks, which implies there have been a lot of naval battles in the area. Eric's ship and palace are decorated with the fleur-de-lis, which is primarily associated with French royalty. Ariel's mother was crushed to death by pirate ships clashing, and the Mediterranean was filled with pirates and corsairs during the time the story takes place (which is supposedly in the early 19th century). Melody makes her way to the Arctic on a boat and swims to Atlantica as a mermaid, so if the story takes place in the Caspian sea, that wouldn't be possible since the Caspian doesn't connect with the Atlantic ocean and the lyrics of "Under the Sea" heavily imply that the story takes place in either the Caribbean or the Mediterranean, but the rest of the movie leans more towards the Mediterranean. Even the developers of the first movie said they were going for a Mediterranean vibe.

      Problem is, stuff such as Return to the Sea had Atlantica being closer to Iceland, and then there's Metal Fish in the TV series, which had HCA, the original author of the tale, making a key role in that episode, and more importantly telling the fairy tale in the ending of the episode at Eric's Kingdom. Also, let's not forget that there were plenty of naval wrecks around the north Atlantic as well (remember the Spanish Armada that tried to invade Britain?). One thing I can agree with is that it's certainly not in the Caspian Sea (Return to the Sea alone destroys that theory, and besides, the final battle with Ursula isn't nearly as impressive if she were the usurper queen of a land-locked sea).

      As far as pirates, the Atlantic had plenty of piracy, believe it or not (in fact, arguably Atlantic piracy was more famous, or rather, infamous than Mediterranean piracy, about having as much infamy as Carribbean piracy), so that doesn't rule out Denmark. And let's not forget, Barbary Pirates during the early 19th century were very widespread. Heck, they're practically the reason America even HAS a naval force to this day. And regarding Eric's nationality, Eric's technically a Scandinavian name.

      Return to the Sea doesn't indicate that it's anywhere near Iceland. And that wouldn't make any sense since Iceland and its surrounding waters were very isolated at that time and the ocean would be way too cold for all those tropical fish to be in. Not to mention all the flamingos and turtles, which are nowhere to be found anywhere near the Danish realm.

      If you're basing this on how fast Melody travelled to the Arctic, that doesn't indicate anything either. Because she had help reaching the Arctic in the first place and as a mermaid, she is able to swim at an unmeasurable speed and the map to Atlantica isn't detailed enough for us to see the exact location of the setting.

      As for Atlantic piracy, those were very rare in the Norwegian Sea and the Greenland Strait since pirates mainly profitted from slave trade and strong trade routes and rarely went far outside pirate havens like the Bahamas and northern Africa. In fact, the only time I can think of when pirates went that far north was the Barbary raids on Iceland in the 17th century. And that is the only record of Barbary pirates ever going so far up north.

      And while naval battles were common pretty much anywhere among the European powers, the Mediterranean has the longest history of naval warfare in Europe. Especially near France, Spain and Africa in the 1700s and 1800s due to pirates, the Napoleonic wars, the Barbary wars, the Greek War of Independence etc.

      And I don't think H.C. Andersen's appearance makes a difference. H.C. Andersen was an avid supporter of multiculturalism and most of his stories took place outside Denmark. Even the original The Little Mermaid story takes place somewhere near northern Africa. And let's not forget that Andersen travelled a lot in real life. He based some of his stories on his visits to Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Morocco, England and the Ottoman Empire.

      And Eric may be a Germanic name, but that name is also used by the English, French and Spanish with different pronunciation. And even if you use the mention of the Germanic-sounding Glowerhaven to move Eric's nationality more to the north, you should know that European royals were often arranged to marry royals outside their ethnolinguistic group. For example, Maria Feodorovna, mother of Tsar Nicholas II, was a Danish princess before becoming the Empress consort of Russia. The British and German royalties also had similar connections to Greece, Sweden, Austria and Spain during the Victorian era. Besides, names don't necessarily determine your nationality or ethnicity. I mean, my first name is of Hebrew origins but that doesn't mean I'm Jewish.

      But Eric is most likely French given that his kingdom has a very strong Franco-Italian influence, his ship is decorated with fleur-de-lis and he wears an 18th century ceremonial French military uniform at the wedding.

      This is a great insight that I haven't seen more, I never even noticed the fleur-de-lis being used in the film. From what I've noticed there are some countries in that area that influnced each other and what not giving them some exposure to influence each other (like the name Eric for example). It's nice to see a good agrument on the location. 

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    • Lovefiction wrote:

      TobenT wrote:
      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      TobenT wrote:


      Chicamv wrote:
      but this is clearly happening in the Caspian Sea, it says so right in the lyrics. This means it isn't Mediterranean and it definitely isn't in the Caribbean!
      No it doesn't. She just says "beluga, sevruga, come winds of the Caspian sea". For all we know, the spell she was using simply originated from the Caspian sea.

      But everything points out to the story taking place in the Mediterranean. The architecture and culture of Eric's kingdom is predominantly French and Italian. There's a whole graveyard of shipwrecks, which implies there have been a lot of naval battles in the area. Eric's ship and palace are decorated with the fleur-de-lis, which is primarily associated with French royalty. Ariel's mother was crushed to death by pirate ships clashing, and the Mediterranean was filled with pirates and corsairs during the time the story takes place (which is supposedly in the early 19th century). Melody makes her way to the Arctic on a boat and swims to Atlantica as a mermaid, so if the story takes place in the Caspian sea, that wouldn't be possible since the Caspian doesn't connect with the Atlantic ocean and the lyrics of "Under the Sea" heavily imply that the story takes place in either the Caribbean or the Mediterranean, but the rest of the movie leans more towards the Mediterranean. Even the developers of the first movie said they were going for a Mediterranean vibe.

      Problem is, stuff such as Return to the Sea had Atlantica being closer to Iceland, and then there's Metal Fish in the TV series, which had HCA, the original author of the tale, making a key role in that episode, and more importantly telling the fairy tale in the ending of the episode at Eric's Kingdom. Also, let's not forget that there were plenty of naval wrecks around the north Atlantic as well (remember the Spanish Armada that tried to invade Britain?). One thing I can agree with is that it's certainly not in the Caspian Sea (Return to the Sea alone destroys that theory, and besides, the final battle with Ursula isn't nearly as impressive if she were the usurper queen of a land-locked sea).

      As far as pirates, the Atlantic had plenty of piracy, believe it or not (in fact, arguably Atlantic piracy was more famous, or rather, infamous than Mediterranean piracy, about having as much infamy as Carribbean piracy), so that doesn't rule out Denmark. And let's not forget, Barbary Pirates during the early 19th century were very widespread. Heck, they're practically the reason America even HAS a naval force to this day. And regarding Eric's nationality, Eric's technically a Scandinavian name.

      Return to the Sea doesn't indicate that it's anywhere near Iceland. And that wouldn't make any sense since Iceland and its surrounding waters were very isolated at that time and the ocean would be way too cold for all those tropical fish to be in. Not to mention all the flamingos and turtles, which are nowhere to be found anywhere near the Danish realm.

      If you're basing this on how fast Melody travelled to the Arctic, that doesn't indicate anything either. Because she had help reaching the Arctic in the first place and as a mermaid, she is able to swim at an unmeasurable speed and the map to Atlantica isn't detailed enough for us to see the exact location of the setting.

      As for Atlantic piracy, those were very rare in the Norwegian Sea and the Greenland Strait since pirates mainly profitted from slave trade and strong trade routes and rarely went far outside pirate havens like the Bahamas and northern Africa. In fact, the only time I can think of when pirates went that far north was the Barbary raids on Iceland in the 17th century. And that is the only record of Barbary pirates ever going so far up north.

      And while naval battles were common pretty much anywhere among the European powers, the Mediterranean has the longest history of naval warfare in Europe. Especially near France, Spain and Africa in the 1700s and 1800s due to pirates, the Napoleonic wars, the Barbary wars, the Greek War of Independence etc.

      And I don't think H.C. Andersen's appearance makes a difference. H.C. Andersen was an avid supporter of multiculturalism and most of his stories took place outside Denmark. Even the original The Little Mermaid story takes place somewhere near northern Africa. And let's not forget that Andersen travelled a lot in real life. He based some of his stories on his visits to Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Morocco, England and the Ottoman Empire.

      And Eric may be a Germanic name, but that name is also used by the English, French and Spanish with different pronunciation. And even if you use the mention of the Germanic-sounding Glowerhaven to move Eric's nationality more to the north, you should know that European royals were often arranged to marry royals outside their ethnolinguistic group. For example, Maria Feodorovna, mother of Tsar Nicholas II, was a Danish princess before becoming the Empress consort of Russia. The British and German royalties also had similar connections to Greece, Sweden, Austria and Spain during the Victorian era. Besides, names don't necessarily determine your nationality or ethnicity. I mean, my first name is of Hebrew origins but that doesn't mean I'm Jewish.

      But Eric is most likely French given that his kingdom has a very strong Franco-Italian influence, his ship is decorated with fleur-de-lis and he wears an 18th century ceremonial French military uniform at the wedding.

      This is a great insight that I haven't seen more, I never even noticed the fleur-de-lis being used in the film. From what I've noticed there are some countries in that area that influnced each other and what not giving them some exposure to influence each other (like the name Eric for example). It's nice to see a good agrument on the location. 

      Well, France DID still have some sway during the 19th century, even after its revolution nearly messed things up (largely thanks to Napoleon), so it's not like its hit rock bottom yet like it has recently. So the influences could explain its presence without actually being in France (remember, Prince John utilized French at one point in Robin Hood, and that movie was explicitly in England). Besides, I hail in Georgia, which had absolutely NO history of being owned by France (being originally formed as a British Penal Colony and part of the 13 British Colonies that would form the United States), yet a nearby neighborhood actually features the fleur-de-lis despite that. The only movies that are explicitly located in France are Beauty and the Beast and the Aristocats (I'd mention Cinderella in there largely because of the surnames being French, though for all we know, that could take place in Belgium). The Little Mermaid doesn't have much other than MAYBE either the Mediterranean or Northern Europe, depending on what sources you go by (and no, Caribbean isn't really an option, especially when Sebastian's more like an immigrant from that location going by the TV series).

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